Christian Nationalism

Hi, this is Pastor Luzer. I’m going to spend some time with you talking about the relationship between politics and Christianity. Of course, we all understand there would be a great deal of conflict after all. As of us know, politics is based on an adversarial relationship, one person trying to jockey for power. It’s, of course, oftentimes tied up with propaganda, demonizing your opponents. Christianity comes along and says, “We all meet together at the foot of the cross in humility and brokenness. We all admit our sin.” And we are to keep the unity of the spirit in the bonds of peace.

So, of course there’s conflict. As a matter of fact, when you study church history, you discover it goes way back to 312 A.D. when Constantine conquered Rome and Christianized the Empire and actually ended up appointing bishops in the church. So, throughout the centuries, there has been a great deal of conflict in Europe between the Pope, the Emperor. Christianity and politics has had a very interesting history and oftentimes a very adversarial history.

Now, when it comes to our present time here in America, we hear a great deal about what is called “Christian nationalism.” Sometimes, I’m asked the question, “Are you a Christian nationalist?” Well, it depends on what you mean. Throughout the years, it’s been my privilege to lead tours to the sites of the Protestant Reformation, but also we include Nazi sites. Recent, recently I was in Nuremberg, where those great Hitler rallies took place. A quarter of a million people met together over a period of time, and of course Hitler gave his very famous speeches. Now, this stadium, in German—it’s one word laid upon another—it’s actually twenty-two letters long. Of course, our guide was able to pronounce the name, “But for you Americans,” he said, “let’s just call it ‘Soldiers’ Field.’” Of course, it has nothing to do with Soldier Field here in the city of Chicago.

Now, I was prepared to give an address that would last 30 or 40 minutes, but it turned out to be very brief, and the reason is this: If you have ever been on a tour with 50 people, you will soon learn that tour groups oftentimes, notoriously are late. And so, we were under some pressure because after this we were able to have lunch and then we would go into the very courtroom where the Nazis were tried. I’ll tell you about that later. But even as we discuss the issue of Christian nationalism (the relationship of the cross and the flag) for now, I want you to go to Soldiers’ Field with me. And then stay tuned, because afterwards, I’ll be adding something to the speech and then we will be going into the courtroom, and I’ll be talking to you about the trial of the twenty-one Nazis. But for now, join us in Soldiers’ Field.

Soldiers’ Field: Five Relationships Between The Cross And The Flag

Many of us are touring Germany, finding important sites that have impacted history, and I can’t think of a more important site than where we are today in Nuremberg, Germany. More specifically, we are actually at the site of the great Nazi rallies just outside of the city of Nuremberg, and you can see to the back of me, that’s the podium Hitler used to give many of his famous speeches, some of which I’m sure we have seen on YouTube. We’re at a place where we need to talk about the relationship between politics and Christianity. Now, I’m going to speak about Christian nationalism and if you disagree with anything that I say, I hope you’ll wait until the end because I have a very special word for you. So let’s begin. What is nationalism? Christian nationalism is when you have the blending of Christianity and a political agenda in such a way that oftentimes the Gospel is lost.

Now, if somebody asks me, am I a Christian nationalist, I always have to ask them, “What do you mean?” There are so many definitions out there. But basically to help us understand the relationship, I want to give you five possible relationships between the cross, which of course stands for the church and the flag, which stands for the state. The first relationship I’m going to describe is when the flag is above the cross and there’s no place on all the earth where we could more easily and more clearly recognize that kind of nationalism, right here at this stadium. What happened in Nazi Germany is Christianity was obliterated and actually instead of the Gospel, the Gospel became politics. If you read the history, you discover there were pastors who said, “Why should we worry about the miracles of Jesus? Let’s talk about the miracles of Hitler’s Germany.” Heresy?

It ended up being demonic, and all of us know that history. That’s one possible relationship.

The other relationship, and I’ve kind of made this up to make a point is when you have the cross without the flag. I use that for the pietists. They were not committed to the state necessarily. They met in their Bible studies, but they were not involved in the political realities of their culture. You perhaps have heard of the story, evidently true, that when they met together in one church with the train tracks running past them, they always made sure they were singing because they knew those trains were full of Jews on their way to a concentration camp. And they’re not involved because whatever the world does, the world is going to do. Now, let’s not be too critical because we don’t know exactly what we’ve done.

There’s another relationship I’ll simply refer to quickly, and that is when it’s the cross against the flag. That’s the confessing church. That’s the Bonhoeffer who say, we cannot go along with our government and therefore we oppose the flag, which in this case of course was the Swastika.

There’s another relationship and that is the cross and the flag. Genuine Christians committed to the Gospel, but at the same time identifying so much with a political party or a political agenda that sometimes the issues become blurred. When you think about the United States, you realize, of course, we really can’t talk about that unless we talk about what happened on January 6th. Now, some of the initial reports of what happened were inaccurate, but it is indeed a blot on our history. And for this reason, I raised the issue because there were some people who were carrying crosses in the capital. And so, in the minds of people, Christianity and a political agenda were combined, and that’s very dangerous.

As a result of that, unfortunately, Christian nationalism is oftentimes a term used even for those who are just patriotic, people who stand for the flag, people who are willing to commit themselves to their country. But I want to give you another way we can see the relationship of the flag and the cross, and of course it’s my preference, and that is when the cross is above the flag—when we recognize the Gospel of Jesus Christ is always first. When I pass away, and if anyone remembers me, I wish they would remember that he loved the Gospel. I can’t think of anything greater to think about than the Gospel.

But does this mean I don’t think that politics is important? I think that politics is very important. It’s not ultimately important. Of course, it’s the Gospel that is, but it is very important. I had a friend who gave a lecture recently on Christian nationalism. And he was going through and I agreed with a lot of it, but then he got to the end (and I am not giving you his name because I might be misquoting him somewhat) but he said in effect, “The great hope of the world is not America.

The great hope of the world is Christ.” Now, obviously as Christians we agree with that. Who would disagree with that? But the problem with that statement is this, it gives the impression that America is not worth preserving. In other words, “Let America disintegrate. Let everything fall apart because the hope of the world is Christ.” I want to share my heart with you. Rebecca and I have just been in Albania, a country that was under communism, and I have to tell you every single ministry there is supported by American dollars. Whether the ministries are in India or Africa or around the world, it all has to do with Christian dollars being used to share the good hope of the Gospel. I love America and that’s why I’m so grieved when people do nothing but trash it. They look at all of its deficiencies; and America is far from perfect, and always will be. But politics, and the preservation of America, I believe is very, very important.

As a pastor, I have never endorsed a political candidate or a political party. I do not want to be identified with that and I wish I had more time [to] explain why, but I simply lay that out for you. Having said that, however, that does not mean we cannot be involved. I believe in the separation of church and state, but you cannot separate the state from morality. Therefore, what’s wrong with us as Christians being involved in moral issues and pushing our agenda? We don’t believe we’re ancient Israel and therefore America is some kind of a Christian nation we want to create.

But what we want to do is to argue for certain values which today are being politicized. I’m doing this from memory, so I may forget some, but let me come up with perhaps five or six. First of all, parental rights is so critical, and it’s politicized today. Right here, in this stadium where Hitler preached, Hitler said things like this, “Parents, you take care of the children, you feed them, you clothe them, you send them to school, but their hearts will belong to the Reich.” In other words, we’re going to have your children and the whole Hitler youth movement proved that. We as Christian parents need to stand up for parental rights. Again, each of these things I’m going to mention I could speak about for five or ten minutes, so I’m only going to speak of them briefly.

The whole LGBTQ+ issue, is it politics? Well, it’s politicized today, isn’t it? Christians have to know how to respond to this culture. Let me think of something else. Let me go with race. You know, the Bible says in Christ, “There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free …[we] are all one in Christ Jesus.” (Galatians 3:28). There’s a transcendent unity among believers. Critical race theory comes and wants to tear that apart and it’s based on a Marxist theory of oppression and there’s no way to get to reconciliation through that means. We need to speak to that issue biblically, but as you know, it’s also a political issue.

Recently in America, there was a woman on national television, and she said, “Christian nationalists believe their rights come from God and not the state.” I want to let everyone know that in a couple of hours we all hope to be in the courtroom where the Nazi trials were held. I want to speak to you so specifically, the only basis for human rights is the creation account in Genesis. You can’t get to there through the evolutionary process. And if you say the state gives us rights, that’s exactly what happened in Nazi Germany. That’s exactly what happened under communism. As a matter of fact, people don’t understand this, but you don’t even have the right to criticize the state unless the state gives you the right to criticize the state. If Christian nationalism means, “I believe our rights come from God,” well, I guess you have to color me a Christian nationalist.

We could go on and talk about law. The Bible says, “Justice is turned back, and righteousness stands far away; for truth has stumbled in the public squares.” (Isaiah 59:14) I’m going to be mentioning that again when we’re in the courtroom. As Christians, however, we have to recognize that even though there are other issues, and I’ve only mentioned a few, we need to be involved in these things, recognizing the Gospel of Jesus Christ has these implications.

Now, should Christians run for office in the United States? Yes, they can. Rebecca and I know at least one woman in the House of Representatives, who’s a woman with great integrity maintaining her Christian faith. I wish there would be more. But I have to tell you this, that’s not true in all the countries of the world. I was giving a lecture in Russia in St. Petersburg to a university, a seminary, and I mentioned Christians can be involved and there was this murmur throughout the classroom. Later on, my interpreter says, “You have to understand politics here in Russia is so corrupt, no Christian can be involved.” Well, that’s a separate issue, but in America they can be.

You say, “Well, pastor Lutzer, how should we vote?” I’m so glad you asked me that question. How do we vote? I am not a Republican. I am not a Democrat. But I am a Christian, and so I look at the platforms of the two parties. I look at the flawed candidates we have to choose from, and I say, “Which of them is more consistent with my values as a Christian?” As Christians, we have to realize there are great differences among us, and we have this opportunity to prove our unity in Jesus Christ is stronger than our political unity. What you find, just as we found during the COVID-19 experience, is that families are divided, neighbors are divided, but we as Christians have to hang together because we agree on a couple of things.

First, there are problems in this country that cannot be solved by no matter who gets elected in Washington because we need a spiritual revival of repentance and faith. We can agree on that. And we can also agree Jesus Christ is our king, king of kings and Lord of lords. We don’t kiss the Democratic donkey and we don’t kiss the Republican elephant. We bow before Jesus Christ and we “kiss the Son” as it says in the book of Psalms 2:12. It is He whom we worship. We have to kiss the Son in whom we have put our faith and obedience. Thanks so much for joining us directly here from Nuremberg. God bless you.

A Biblical Perspective On National Borders

It was a great opportunity to be there to remind ourselves of the tremendous evil that was done under the Nazis. Of course, if you’ve seen YouTube videos, you know Hitler gave his speeches there inciting the people, causing them to hate the Jews and to others with a form of nationalism that turned out to be thoroughly demonic.

But you’ll notice in the lecture, I mentioned I personally believe in the separation of church and state, but I also said you cannot separate the state from morality, and I gave a list of various kinds of issues that are biblical issues, but at the same time they do impinge on politics. I want to add one of those issues. I realize this is very sensitive, but I have never preached a sermon about this, but I have written about it.

I want to begin by asking you a question. “Would the Bible teach it is legitimate for a country to have borders?” I think the answer is yes. You remember, when God gave the land to Abraham, he even said, here are the borders and throughout Scripture you have a reference to “nations” and a reference to “borders.” Now, someone who did not want any borders in the world was Karl Marx, by the way, because he wanted a borderless world, a world in which one would be a citizen of the entire world. The implications of that are absolutely huge.
But let me ask you another question. Does the Bible honor citizenship? The answer is yes. Jesus spoke about citizenship As a matter of fact, in that very familiar parable of the prodigal son, he says the prodigal son went and “joined himself onto a citizen of that country” (Luke 15:15). And later on, in another parable, Jesus referred to citizenship (Luke 19:11-27). And the apostle Paul, he appealed to his citizenship when it came to being beaten, he was emphasizing he was a Roman citizen and they gave him special rights (Acts 22:25-28). Biblically speaking, nobody has an unalienable right to enter another country.

Well, this introduces us to the whole issue of immigration. Sometime ago I had a pastor who said these words (I heard him say), “You know, the Bible says ‘whosoever will may come.’ That’s the Gospel. Therefore, we should have open borders. Whoever will come to America should be able to come to America.” I think that that breeds an awful lot of confusion. Biblically, the responsibility of the state is to keep order. It is to punish evil doers. It is protect those who do that which is right. Can you imagine a country in which there is no order, no police, no state. That’s the responsibility. As a matter of fact, the symbol of the actually is the sword.

On the other hand, you have the symbol of the church, which is the cross. My point is simply this: It’s not the responsibility of the government to run its policies in accordance with compassion.

Of course, a government should be compassionate when it can be, but that can’t be the principle by which it governs its borders. Should the government forgive seventy times seven? No. That’s the responsibility of the church now, that’s why even though I am opposed to open borders, I do support ministries that minister to migrants once they are here. You remember the story of the man who went from Jerusalem to Jericho. He was beaten. He fell among thieves (Luke 10:25-37). And the Good Samaritan came and didn’t say, “Now, are you a citizen? What country are you from? What color are you?” We as Christians help whoever needs help and we are committed to help all people and we should be above all things a compassionate people. I want to just add a footnote and say I find it very interesting people who advocate for open borders oftentimes are inconsistent because if you live in a gated community, for example, and somebody comes over the wall, you would expect that person to be arrested.

Many people (myself included of course) lock our doors. Why? We want to know who is coming into our house and we don’t want anyone to come in whom we do not know. And yet, you find people who are advocating open borders and acting as if we should welcome everyone, even oftentimes when there are many so-called “got-aways,” we have no idea who they are, no idea where they are going, no idea of their intentions. So, we must keep in mind the difference between the cross (the church) and the sword (the state).

But now I want to pick up on something else I said there in what we call Soldiers’ field, and that is when I spoke about natural law and when I spoke about human rights and the need for us as Christians to advocate for what I called transcendent laws. I hope I’m going to be able to make myself clear about this because I’m setting us up to go to the place where the twenty-one Nazis were tried in Nuremberg.

Think of it this way. What can you expect as a human being? What are your human rights? Did you know we can’t come to the idea of equality through evolution? We have to believe human rights are given to us by God. Rebecca and I are friends with a very well-known attorney. He has argued cases before the Supreme Court. And he told us he was in a class where they were discussing human rights and the professor said this. He said, “Really, the only basis of human rights is the biblical account of creation that people are created in the image of God.” “But,” he says, “Since we don’t accept the Bible, we have to try to build human rights on a different foundation.” But really that can’t be done. You see, if you have human beings trying to come up with human laws to protect human rights, you end up with things like Eichmann [who was an officer of the Schutzstaffel and a major organizer of the Holocaust]. Now, [Otto Adolf] Eichmann was not tried in Nuremberg. He was hiding at the time, but that evil man responsible for the killing of many Jews said, “I was just obeying the laws of my country and the laws of my flag.” And that’s why it is in Nuremberg, the issue arose, “How should these Nazis be tried? By whose laws? American laws? British laws?” Well, Robert Jackson, the American attorney explained, as I’ll mention in a moment, he explained there are transcendent laws. And just like water cannot arise above its source, I believe transcendent laws can only exist if you believe in God. So when we read, “All men are created equal and are endowed by their creator with certain inalienable rights,” that is an amazing statement. I always knew it was amazing, but I have to tell you after being in Nuremberg, I appreciate it much more. Now, we were not allowed to do any filming within the courthouse (certainly not in room 600, where the Nazis were tried though we went there later). So, it was outside of the courthouse on a sidewalk next to a busy street that I gave some very brief remarks. I want you to watch those remarks and after that I’m going to have some concluding comments.

Nuremberg Courthouse: The Necessity Of God For Morality

We are here in Nuremberg, Germany. Behind me is the courthouse where twenty-one Nazis were tried for war crimes back in 1945 to 1946. What interests us is the fact that these Nazis did not personally commit the murders, but they gave orders, and they were a part of the Nazi system. There are two very important lessons we can learn here in Nuremberg about these trials.

First of all, the question arose, “What laws are we going to use by which they will be tried?” The Nazis argued they didn’t break any rules, they didn’t break any laws, because Hitler had declared the Jews to be un that is subhuman and to kill them was not a crime. So by whose laws are they going to be judged? British law? American law? There was an attorney from the United States by the name of Robert Jackson. He gave a speech in which he said, in effect, “There is a law above the law.” What he meant was this. There are transcendent laws which apply to all cultures, everywhere, at all times. And I would like to argue those transcendent laws need to be based on a view of God, who in His creation, has put within place certain laws, certainly issues regarding gravity and all, but also moral issues and laws that have been instituted by Him. The Bible says Isaiah 59:14, “Justice is turned back, and righteousness stands far away; for truth has stumbled in the public squares.” This relates directly to what we are going through in America. If you cut laws off from transcendent values, then anyone can say this or that is just. Justice can be however you define it. For example, there’s environmental justice (which of course is the Green New Deal). There’s such things as economic justice (which is socialism), and all kinds of other “justices” as everyone does what is just in their own eyes. The trials here at Nuremberg remind us as one man said, “Show me your laws and I will show you your God.” If you believe there is no authority above the Supreme Court of the United States, then the Supreme Court is “god.” If you believe there is no authority above yourself, well, you are “god.” but here we are to remind ourselves there are transcendent laws beyond us and they need to be rooted in divine law and divine authority.

There’s another lesson and I know this is going to be shocking. What if I were to tell you some of these Nazis are going to be in heaven? Now, that sounds so counterintuitive that it's difficult for us to grasp. I mean, it’s the scandal of grace. Here’s what happened. The American government decided they should provide a chaplain for these Nazis. The chaplain came here. He was a very conservative pastor. He administered the “sacraments” as he called them. He was a Lutheran man but believed in faith in Jesus Christ alone for salvation. And he befriended them. And here’s the surprise: When they had meetings, he discovered they all could quote the Lord’s prayer. In other words, these men were brought up in the church, of all things, and he decided he would befriend them; He would share the Gospel with them. If one of them was not willing to acknowledge Jesus Christ as Savior, he did not give them the bread and the wine. He believes that six, perhaps seven, savingly believed on Christ—an amazing story. It’s found in a book entitled Mission at Nuremberg by Tim Townsend. Amazingly, I’m thinking, for example, of Ribbentrop who was Hitler’s foreign minister. He was the first to be hung here, by the way. He before he died, says, “I entrust my soul to the Lord Jesus Christ who died on the cross for my sins.” And he said to the pastor, “I will see you again.”

Now we’re here in Nuremberg at this very famous courthouse, and as you probably noticed, we're along a very busy street, but let’s not let the busyness of life keep us from pausing long enough to ask, “What do these trials teach us?” There is much more they teach us, but one of the lessons in addition, to all the others, is the lesson of amazing grace. Because God says, “I can forgive a Nazi, if he repents of his sins and receives my Son, but I cannot forgive a good, decent citizen who doesn’t receive my Son.” Amazing grace!

Marvelous grace of our loving Lord,

Grace that exceeds our sin and our guilt!

Yonder on Calvary’s mount out-poured—

There where the blood of the lamb was spilt.

Dark is the stain we cannot hide.

What can avail to wipe it away?

Look! There is flowing a crimson tide,

Believe it and you shall be as white as snow.

“Grace Greater Than Our Sin”, Julia H. Johnston (1910)

That’s the good news of the Gospel. Share it with as many people as you possibly can. Direct from Nuremberg, Germany, thanks for joining us.

Lessons From Nuremberg: Christians And Politics

Yes, my friend. I personally am so grateful for the grace of God. You’d be surprised at the number of people who believe they deserved grace. Well, my friend, if we deserved grace, it wouldn’t be grace. Grace means we are receiving something that is totally undeserved. That's why I never get over the wonder and the amazement of God’s grace. Now, after we were there at the sidewalk, we were able to go into room 600 and there we were given earpieces, and I want to just share a little bit more about what Robert Jackson said. I found it fascinating. He said, “It would be very easy for us as the winners (Britain, the United States, the Allies) to take vengeance against these Nazi leaders.” But he said, “I want to demonstrate that even criminals have a right to be tried by international, transcendent laws.” I found that interesting. And that’s why those trials took place in Nuremberg, and they have had a great deal effect on criminal law.

But I want to pick up on the basis of law and speak a little bit about it further. Let me ask you a question. Let’s suppose your daughter went to a secular university and she was assigned a roommate. And this roommate was born Bert, but now he wants to be called “Betty” because he says he is now a girl. Of course, as a pastor, I want to pause and say when you meet someone like that, we need to treat them with love and with respect. But also to help them to understand their confusion, because we’re living in a day and age when there are so many conflicting voices and so many conflicting impulses.

But that aside, how would you like that if your daughter were assigned a roommate, just like that? Well, of course as Christians, there are exemptions to this and we must understand that oftentimes these laws and policies are not applied. But I’m reading from Title IX, perhaps you’ve heard about it. It says, “Trans students may not be barred from any educational programs on account of their gender. Trans students may not be denied access to restrooms, locker rooms and showers consistent with their gender. This means dress codes may not be applied against trans students in a discriminatory manner. Trans students may not be subjected to invasive examination to prove their gender.” Now I don’t know where this is at legally, but I want to share with you. The reason politics is important is because politics means policy and policy impacts people. Now, I can imagine there are some people out there who say, you Christians, you want to impose your values on others.

Well, I have to smile when they say that because all laws are the imposition of somebody’s values.

Let me ask you, should only atheists and secularists be involved when it comes to laws and values and arguing for their point of view? Cannot we as Christians understand the need for us also to be involved in the process? That’s why I support organizations that are on the forefront of laws trying to keep our freedoms. We should be grateful for them because it is so necessary for us to understand law really is the point of the spear. You’ve heard me say this before, and it’s actually a quotation that comes from a man by the name of [R.J.] Rushdoony, “Show me your laws. I will show you your God.” About a week ago, I was reading the book of Daniel and I discovered there a reference to antichrist. It says, he shall change laws (Daniel 7:25). You’d better believe he’s going to change laws. You go to Revelation chapter 13 and what do you discover? The law is, “If you do not worship me, you are killed with a sword.” (Revelation 13:8-10) Yes, show me your laws. I will show you your God.

Now, what I’m going to share with you now is most important. I’ve emphasized the fact also what I said in the stadium, that we as Christians in a political season have the privilege of showing our unity in Christ is stronger than our political unity. But also, I want to share my heart with you regarding believers and the church. Let us remember we are in a battle spiritually in this nation, and as far as that’s concerned other nations of the world have the same battle, that is really a spiritual conflict. All of us know we have problems in America that no political party can solve no matter who gets elected, no matter what laws are enacted.

We have a great spiritual need and this need is so great we simply cannot overlook it and we as believers need to repent. I was just thinking the other day that maybe Huxley was right when he said, we love our servitude. We are a nation that thinks it is free, but actually we’re a nation of slaves. We’re a slave to social media. We’re a slave to our own outrage and anger. We are slaves to our own selfishness. We are slaves to our self-righteousness, and if we were to repent deeply, I believe God would so examine us and to help us to understand how warped our view of the world really is because what we need to do is to share the Gospel. Now, I had hope to look up this passage of scripture in advance and I did not do that, so you’re going to have to take a moment until I find it, but the context is the apostle Paul, he is speaking to King Agrippa and I absolutely love his speech and what he is telling Agrippa is exactly what Jesus told him as he was called on the way to Damascus, and we all know the conversion story, but I’m going to read for you now.

These are the words of Jesus to Paul. What was Paul called to do, my friend? Today, I think the calling of the apostle Paul is our calling as well. God says, I’m sending you to the Gentiles. I’m sending you to open their eyes that they may turn from darkness to light and from the power of Satan to God that they may receive forgiveness of sins and a place among those who are sanctified by faith in me. It’s the words of Jesus brothers and sisters. The Gospel is that Jesus Christ was crucified, he was buried, he was raised, he was taken to heaven. He’s waiting there for us and that’s the message of hope that we have to joyfully and confidently share with the world. It is so critical and that is not a political message, that’s not a democratic or a Republican message. It is a biblical message and that must be our burning desire above all else, and that’s why soldiers feel there in Nuremberg. I emphasize the need for us as believers always to be motivated by the Gospel to do everything we do redemptively, even though I do believe politics is important as I’ve emphasized, but we live redemptively and always my friend, without any doubt, may we remember that the cross must always be high above the flag. Thanks for joining us. God bless you.